The Karl Stefanovic Show

00:04 Tonight on the show, Dawn Fraser has entered the fight. The Olympic legend has blasted Anthony Albanese for refusing to condemn the ABC over its controversial Gina Reinhart satire, which is still online, calling the PM a spineless imbecile and an insipid degenerate. And there's another political shock tonight. You national figures on real estate, it is all heading up Schitt's Creek, isn't it? Has One Nation got the only paddle? Before we get into all of that, a quick reminder of the battle against youth crime not being won. 00:34 This 14-year-old carrying a machete on a Gold Coast train. Come to assist, thanks, just like catered the male with a machete. 00:41 He was in custody. I don't know what you guys were doing at 14, but we weren't doing that right. What is going on across our cities? Well, coming up on the show, the PM says he's unfit for Parliament. The media calls him a conspiracy nut. But Malcolm Roberts says Australia's biggest problems are being ignored. 00:59 We just haven't got the capacity to deal with that. Schools, hospitals, infrastructure, roads, water. It's just driving up cost of living. 01:09 Then... He spent almost 12 years as Australia's foreign minister, the longest in our history. Alexander Downer joins us to get his love of the Labor Party off his chest. 01:20 Just joking. This is The Car Weekly. Let's get into it. Malcolm Roberts is first up. Senator Malcolm Roberts, chief troublemaker to the Prime Minister. Welcome to the program. Nice to see you. 01:33 Thank you, Carl. It's great to be here. Thanks for the invitation. And I'm only a little guy. 01:39 I don't know what he's scared of. 01:40 You seem powerful. 01:41 Actually, you know, Carl, when we came back after the last election, which was 2025, we had our staffing cut in half, our parliamentary staff cut in half. And we thought, this is going to be a problem. And the only other person to get their staff cut in half, apart from One Nation, was Ralph Babette. 02:02 So Pauline said, I want to see you, Prime Minister. So he said, this is literally what he said. 02:09 I'll see you, Pauline, but you come on your own. So she wanted him with me. 02:14 And he said, no, not going to meet with you both, one or the other. Pauline said, well, you've had your staff cut as well, so in you go, mate. And he had his chief of staff there, Tim, and himself, but he would not deal with two of us. You know, he doesn't like witnesses. He's a grub mate. 02:33 Well, tell us what you really think of the PM. 02:37 Well, he's dishonest. 02:39 He's very, very smooth, and he loves to look good, but he doesn't know how to do good because he's full of bullshit. It's just to keep the factions happy. So Australia's being governed by faction leaders, and he's just... 02:54 doling out the resources, taking them from the people, giving them to his mates and the government that requires favours. And we've got the hugest proportion of government in our economy now. It's around about 28%, 28%. And most of them are parasites hanging off the taxpayers. That's what's wrong with this country. 03:16 So when he says that you're unfit for office, how does that make you feel? 03:23 I smile. As you can tell, I couldn't help it. Because it shows we're over the target, Carl. And that's what's happened. We've had a media pile on lately, onto me, because they're trying to get rid of me. But it shows we're right on target. And I don't mind the media holding me accountable at all. 03:41 But what I do object to is when they tell lies and misconstrue and take things out of context and imply things that are false. So that's all a sign of control. When you tell lies, it's a form of trying to control someone. 03:56 And always beneath control, there is fear. They are absolutely terrified of Pauline. They're terrified of One Nation. They're terrified of Barnaby Joyce. And they're just smearing me, so they're just terrified of me. So it's all about fear. And Albanese is not used to having the scrutiny turned back on him, and we're doing it. 04:19 He seemed to point out at the time this association with Alex Jones, a guy, as you know, that made claims about Sandy Hooks, the school shooting there that didn't happen. Does that association, do you worry that association can damage you in the electorate? 04:40 It can with some people, but Alex Jones is well respected by many people. You know, he was wrong about Sandy Hook. He was wrong about 9-11. 04:49 But I talked to him about COVID. He and I were both right. Talked to him about digital ID. He and I are both right. Talked to him about climate fraud. He and I are both correct. Talked about the digital identity and the suite of five individuals. Digital bills, the identity verification bill, the digital ID, the misinformation and disinformation pending bill, the under-16 internet ban, the social credit system with the central bank digital currency. They're all real. 05:20 And it's both the Labor Party and the Liberal Party. That's why we coined the term Uni Party. 05:25 Morrison developed them. Albanese and Morrison introduced them. And that's all about control. And so he's been on money. And I pointed out to one of the journalists who took no notice of it that Alex uses evidence from... 05:42 John F. Kennedy, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Reagan, Trump. 05:48 He's actually quoting several American presidents. The guy's on the money. He's gone overboard on a Sandy Hook, yes, and he's gone overboard on the Twin Towers collapse, 9-11, but so many other things. He has been right on target. 06:05 Notice how they smear me as if I'm endorsing Sandy Hook and endorsing 9-11 when I didn't even discuss them. So it bothers me that the media is taking everything out of context. But you know the really gratifying thing, Carl? 06:21 My name was smashed around the media with lies, even Andrew Bolt piled on. 06:27 with a blatant omission, live by omission. But within a week, two weeks, we were fine again because people said, hang on, if they'd just used about three journalists and three articles, it would have been fine. But when it came day after day after day and people could see that it was just a pile on and it was deliberate and orchestrated and probably involved the Liberal Party and perhaps the Labor Party... Well, the Prime Minister joined in the melee, so... You know, people then said, hang on, this is bullshit. 07:01 I mean, I guess it's an easy label, isn't it, that someone's just a conspiracy nut? I mean, I have my own theories about certain things as well. You know, leaving some of those Alex Jones things aside, you know, I love diving into it and love, you know, my own thought process on it. We're allowed to do that, aren't we? I guess I'm not a senator, though. 07:21 Well, I think it's more important as a senator that I speak out. Hang on, mate. Shut up, Ted! 07:28 Sorry, mate. 07:29 Sorry, Barnaby. 07:34 I think it's very important that a senator speaks up as well, because the things that I talk about quite often are not just the topics of the day, but questions that our constituents ask, Carl. And my duty is to pursue – we're in a parliamentary representative democracy, which means that you don't get a vote, but you're consulted because you can come through me. You can come through Pauline. You can come through another MP. your MPs. 08:04 So I'm supposed to represent. That means the big thing we do is not waggle these lips. It's listen with these things and get out and about in the public. And if someone comes to me with an issue, we'll do the research. 08:19 And then if he's right or she's right, we'll push it. If they're not, we'll stand up and correct them because we've had a lot of issues, a lot of questions about chemtrails, which I don't believe in happening in Australia. 08:30 uh, the condensation trails, um, pedophilia, which is a real problem, uh, and it's, and a few other issues. And we'll do the research. And then if you're wrong or we disagree with you, we'll tell you because we'll say, don't waste our time with this shit, you know? 08:48 Okay. Well, this is good because I'm, I'm mad at looking at the sky. Like anyone who's ever worked with me for 25 years, you know, I'm a pretty reasonable guy, but I'm like looking at the sky going, I mean, what the hell are they then? So just indulge me on chemtrails, will you? 09:06 Yeah, sure. I'll say it again. What people are seeing in Australia... 09:11 CON trails, condensation trails. And you can have a look at the gap between the plane engine and the start of the trail. As it condenses, because of the heat of the gases, they take a while to condense. 09:25 They're not chemtrails. Chemtrails are the dispersal, apparently, of chemicals. 09:31 through the engines or through nozzles, and they have a different format. So if anyone wants to find out more about them, because we got bombarded by people saying, oh, come on, let's expose the chemtrails, and I said, there aren't any. People are itchy, trigger-fingered and very worried about trusting government and they should be, Carl. After COVID, and thank you for standing up and expressing your regret, by the way, it took a lot of courage to do that. I mean that sincerely. Thank you. But after COVID, people are very, very suspicious of government and they look up and they see a condensation trail and they think it's a chem trail. 10:06 Well, it's not. 10:08 Now, I'm not saying that chemtrails don't exist because I don't have the evidence on every plane, but I don't have the evidence that chemtrails do exist in Australia. Other than when we started getting bombarded by people, constituents questioning chemtrails, we did our research and we found an instance of... 10:30 Ground cannon being used by the Snowy Mountains Authority to shoot sulphur dioxide into the atmosphere to cloud seed. That's a form of chemical, but it's from the ground. Then we also found it being used, I think, in Tassie from the air. So that, if you like, that's a form of chemtrail, but they were only used in very infrequent events and they weren't successful at all. So they're not used anywhere else. 10:59 So my belief is that I've got to have evidence before I'll back something. I've got to have the evidence. There is no evidence that chemtrails are being used in Australia. So Hoodie and I were both tired of this, Graeme Hood and I, and he decided to combine with me and have a program, almost an hour and a half, on chemtrails versus contrails, and we explained. So those noughts and crosses that you see in the sky, that's a condensation trail laid coming out of Mascot, say, and then the air moves, The prevailing wind moves and then another condensation trail from another flight a few minutes later. 11:40 Then the air moves and another one comes later. And then you end up with the same happening crisscross. And that's all explained by that. If people want to get a detailed explanation, have a look at my podcast with Graham Hood, 90 Minutes, on my website. 11:56 Malcolm, my gym instructor is going to be filthy with me after he hears that. I mean, he must talk about it for five hours a week when I'm with him. 12:07 Well, tell him to have a look at the video. Look, I anticipated this would come up because I've been a flavour of the month for a couple of weeks. 12:19 And this is what's happened on Sky News with Andrew Bolt and I think Chris Kenney. 12:25 This is what I said on the website with the video with Hoodie. 12:32 So many people ridicule the notion of chemtrails in Australia. 12:36 I don't ridicule the idea. I'm open to there being chemtrails in Australia. I have never denied it. I won't say there are chemtrails in Australia because I haven't seen evidence for it. So I won't say there aren't any. I won't say there are some. I just don't know. And I think it's likely, highly likely, that the US military is doing trials on these things. Here's what was broadcast by Andrew Bolt and Chris Kenney. 13:02 So many people ridicule the notion of chemtrails. I don't ridicule the idea. I'm open to there being chemtrails in Australia. I've never denied it. And I think it's highly likely that the USA military are doing trials on these things. See how they left out the sentence that says, I don't have evidence for any chemtrails in this country. So then they made me out to be like your gym instructor. 13:25 What do they call us when they're after a better label? Conspiracy nut, conspiracy theorist, cooker, et cetera. So Chris Kearney apparently, and certainly Andrew Bolt, misrepresented me and twisted and reversed my position. There is no evidence for chemtrails in this country. 13:44 There are plenty of condensation trails, contrails. It's very significant, Carl, that the reason I said they may be happening in the USA was because they've done experiments through the American armed forces on their own soldiers, and that's horrific. 14:00 But last week before last, the Trump administration, EPA head, was in the public domain saying that they do have evidence that chemtrails were being used in America. Sorry, geoengineering being used in America. So I was actually right about the possible likelihood that they're happening in the United States. But they're not coming out of passenger aircraft and they're not done on passenger airline routes. 14:30 So, I mean, all of this, and I think that you do a lot of great work. Is it because you weigh into it, do you think you get labelled being a cooker, conspiracy nut, and does that worry you? 14:48 As I said, sometimes it bothers me that people label me something because it might stick. We don't like that. But it's not sticking because people know that I'm factual and calm. I always back my comments with data. And you'll notice, Carl, that not one of my speeches sent estimates questions, not one of my podcasts, sorry, not one of my substacks, anything I've done in writing or a prepared speech has ever been questioned because we have the bloody facts to back it up, calm and factual, data-driven. 15:22 So, you know, it doesn't particularly bother me because people can see that they can trust what I say because it's backed by data. Look, even the Greens have said in the Senate publicly, they've said in the Senate that we know Senator Roberts loves data. I mean, what more do you need? 15:43 You're a little like my man Rennick on that particular side of things. I mean, he loves to stack up the data and as hard as he is to follow, sometimes you can't doubt a lot of it. Just on that Senate estimates, you said a couple of weeks, I'm not sure when it was, just a couple of weeks ago from memory recollection, 4.7 million non-citizens in Australia right now. 16:07 That is a big number. 16:11 It's a huge number, Carl, and it reflects the mass immigration since John Howard. John Howard doubled immigration during his tenure in the parliament, and he started mass immigration, and we've had mass immigration ever since. Every prime minister just about since then has boosted it. Albanese has sent it off the charts. 750,000 people coming in per year. 16:34 Net migration of over half a million. We just haven't got the capacity to deal with that. Schools, hospitals, infrastructure, roads, water. It's just driving up cost of living. It's driving up prices everywhere. And housing is off the charts as well because we've got people in every... 16:56 I start getting angry when I start doing this. 17:00 We should be the world's richest state. California by itself is the sixth wealthiest, sixth richest state as a nation in the world. 17:13 We should be matching California. We have the primary production. We have the crops. We have the cattle. We have the meat. We have the coal. We have the energy. We have the gas. We have hard metal, metalliferous mines. You know, we should be the richest country in the world. We've got a wonderful tourist prospect. And where are we? We're bloody hopeless under both Liberal and Labor. And that's the other thing I come back to in answer to your previous question. I first started using the term uni party. 17:44 And these parties are basically pushing similar policies, housing, immigration, cost of living, energy, climate. They're all pushing the same policies. They pretend to be different, but they're not. And so what's happening is the country has been in managed decline for decades, especially since John Howard. 18:05 And so I'm so sick and tired of seeing Australia becoming a poor country. We had the world's number one income, the highest income per capita in 1900, 1920. 18:19 And we're now slipping towards 20th and sliding out. 18:23 And what we're doing is enabling other countries to use our riches while we can't use them here. So we have got a state that is potentially the wealthiest state in the bloody world, and we've got homelessness in record quantities in Cairns, Townsville, Bowen, Mackay, Rockhampton, Gladstone, Maryborough, Sunshine Coast, Brisbane. I can take you to places just outside our office here in Brisbane on the banks of the river, people sleeping in tents under bridges. 18:56 in what should be the world's wealthiest state. 19:00 Ipswich, Boona, Bow Desert, Gold Coast. This is a bloody disgrace, and it's been brought on by mass immigration that both parties have pushed. And Albanese is lying when he says he's cutting it. He went from 750... 19:15 to about 730 and said he'd cut it. Well, that's technically correct, but it's much, much higher than when he came in. And then we've got it going up again above 730 this year. So they're just lies. These bastards, Carl, try to look good, not do good. They'll tell you all kinds of stuff, but they don't tell the truth to the Australian people. They want to look good, not do good. Pretty hard to mask those housing figures this morning. 19:44 Yes, it is, and people are scared. And what's more, we told Albanese and Chalmers during the budget that this has happened before and the same result will occur, and it is now occurring. People are scared. 19:59 They're scared that they can't trust the Prime Minister. What's he going to do next? They're living in fear about what he's doing. You know, Margaret Thatcher was a pretty strong Prime Minister in Britain, a bit before your time, I'm guessing. How old were you and Margaret Thatcher? Only just. Margaret Thatcher, I can remember Labor Party people coming out to Australia to live, saying, I did not like her, but I voted for her, because you knew that she would do what she said. And, Carl, I've led massive changes industrially in the coal industry, which used to be very much us versus them conflict industrial relations. 20:37 And it was an us versus them mentality. But I managed to lead successfully the major changes in the country, in Hunter Valley at the time when I was there, and then later in central Queensland. And how? 20:49 Because I told people about the plan for what we were going to do. And what I've learned is that people are not scared of change. That's bullshit. The experts will tell us that, but it's bullshit. People are scared of uncertainty. And Albanese has cranked up the uncertainty and people are terrified of what he will be doing. Because he says one thing and does something else. Next thing, we'll be charged tax on empty bedrooms, which has been forecast. We'll be having more taxes on death duties. 21:24 You know, all things that he said no. 21:27 I was wondering, I mean, just while you were answering all that, why do you do it? I mean, with all the criticism, Malcolm, that you cop almost daily, and there's been, as you say, a pile on recently, seemingly a pile on everyone at the moment, but why do you do it? 21:49 Why do you do it? 21:53 I do it because it has to be done. I have a Bachelor of Engineering Honours degree in Mining Engineering. 22:04 As part of that, we have to know how to operate fans and ventilate underground mines, keep people alive. So we're taught about atmospheric gases. 22:14 and carbon dioxide included in that. 22:17 And when I was in New Zealand, I was turning around a mine there for 12 months. Our family moved over there with the kids. And when I came back, there was all this climate bullshit, climate fraud going on. And I said to Ian Plymer, who's one of the world's best geologists, what the hell is this all about? And we had a discussion and it's complete crap. And they were saying that carbon dioxide is doing, will do sometime down the road, unspecified date, will cause catastrophe. 22:45 And I thought, this is crap. 22:48 And so I did my research. I got the science first, and I found out it was crap. So then I started speaking out about it. And then I started wondering what was driving it, and I found the UN was driving it. And then I found out who was behind the UN, and it was the major banks because they'll make a killing out of this. 23:08 And I've been to the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business, which is one of the world's foremost business schools and finance schools and economic schools. And I don't brag about being at university because I think universities are cooked these days. But no, I'm serious. We advise both of our children not to go to university. But then I found out who was driving it, and I started exposing it. And then that led eventually to Pauline tapping me on the shoulder saying, I like what you're saying. 23:41 You're speaking common sense. You're a demon, so I'd like you beside me in the Senate. And then I fluked it into the Senate on her coattails the first time with a double dissolution and then got in twice more afterwards on their own. But I do it because, you know, I sat down, Carl, and I said to myself after two or three years as an activist, I didn't realise I was an activist, but I was, Why the hell am I doing this? Why am I foregoing income? Why am I voluntarily spending my wife money and my money, family money, travelling around the country speaking? 24:17 And I sat down and I thought, why? 24:20 First of all, to restore scientific integrity, because science has given us so much. 24:26 Secondly, to protect the economy, because this is going to kill our economy. It is killing our economy. 24:34 Thirdly, was to protect the environment because it is killing the environment. 24:39 Fourthly, it's about making sure that we have good governance. And fifth, it's about getting people back in touch with nature. They're telling us that 0.04% of the atmosphere is going to blow up the world and global boiling and all the rest of it. It's all bullshit and I've got the facts to prove it, but that's why I did it to protect people, protect freedom. That was a specific thing that identified five things, protect freedom, protect the economy, protect the environment, protect scientific integrity and restore the spiritual connection of people with nature. 25:16 Because, Carl, we are puny compared to nature. Nature is so awesome, so wonderful, so beautiful, so powerful. And to say that we can dominate nature and control the climate of this planet by cutting 0.04% of our input into that, come on. It's bullshit. 25:35 And what are we, 1% of global emissions? And there's a hell of a lot of change going on in order to achieve net zero. And we can see the ramifications of that everywhere. Look, you mentioned Pauline. I noticed she's launched in Victoria, that campaign protest. It's going to be pretty ugly down there, I reckon. How do you see it playing out there? 25:56 Well, one of the things I say to people is I don't do forecasts because I don't know. No, I'm serious. 26:02 Yeah. 26:04 I like to keep my integrity. So if I make a claim about the future, it'll be an opinion only. It's not based on hard data. 26:13 Quite frankly, I don't know how we'll go, but I think we'll go very, very well. Warren Pickering, the leader of the party in Victoria, is exceptional. He's a very good speaker. He's a veteran. He's a bricklayer. He's got his feet on the ground. He's down to earth, and he speaks common sense. He'll get a lot of votes. And I think the party... 26:36 under his leadership, will do very, very well. 26:41 You know, we don't know how well the current government will recover under Carroll, but the Liberal Party is on the nose. So I think we'll do very, very well. 26:54 It's important to understand, I think, Carl, and I think you're aware of it based upon a speech you gave in Adelaide recently that I heard about, that people are tired of the bullshit. They're tired of the Uni Party. They want an alternative. The reason we coined the term uniparty is that both of those two parties' policies are the same, but we're the only alternative, the only practical alternative. We're the only other choice in this country. And Carl... 27:22 You know, say we get in with a sneak into government, make it well into government, people will say, oh, they've got a bunch of amateurs in there because the so-called professionals, politicians, are with the Liberal Party and Labor Party. Well, mate, look how they've destroyed this country under the professionals. 27:40 And we need to get back to being proper parliamentary democracy and have real Aussies with the hands on the steering wheel and the foot on the throttle and the foot on the brake. We need real Australians, not parasites who are just professional politicians. 27:59 Senator Malcolm Roberts, what a joy to talk with you. I think we've covered a lot there and I look forward to having you back on the show very soon. 28:06 Look forward to it. Thanks, Carl. 28:08 Now to former Foreign Minister Alexander Downer. 28:12 Alexander Downer, great to see you. How are you? 28:16 I'm good. It's a great pleasure to be on your podcast. Thank you so much. Look, I woke up to the news of Richard Miles coming out saying, what property crash? It's all unfounded. When you saw those details over the last couple of days, what did you think? 28:36 I agree with you. 28:38 A fall in property prices means For a huge percentage of the population, they're getting poorer. They're losing equity. 28:50 So much of their savings has gone into their house. And if it loses value, then that has its own consequences. And it has flow-on consequences as well because it can lead to a loss of consumer confidence and consumer spending can fall. 29:09 I mean, I've seen this happening in other countries. You can even reach the point where people with mortgages end up with negative equity in their houses, that their house is worth less than their mortgage. 29:24 It seems to me that some of the government positions and those in authority have a little bit of a confusing idea on the difference between negative equity and defaulting on repayments. I mean, that's astounding to me. 29:38 I saw that, yeah. 29:40 Somebody called Matt Thistleweight confused negative equity with default on mortgages. 29:52 The two are nothing to do with each other, really. 29:56 So when you have government representatives who are confused about that, then what's playing out out there in Heartland with people with mortgages? 30:07 We had so many young people go into the 5% deposit and now their house is going to be worth less than what they paid for. I mean, this is a disaster. I don't know how you see it any other way at the moment. 30:22 Yeah, so it's a deliberate act of government policy where they've not only scrapped negative gearing other than on new builds, but they've also imposed a capital gains tax at a minimum of 30%, so a capital gains tax at your marginal tax rate. So what they're basically doing is discouraging investment, including investment in property. 30:56 And the consequences are obvious. Anybody who knows anything about business and economics knows that that will be a huge setback for the economy. If we avoid a recession, I think it will be a miracle. I mean, the government is against savings and against investment. 31:18 And savings and investment are what drive economic growth. 31:25 So their tax system is very weird. It seems to be born out of a general idea that anybody who makes money shouldn't make money. and we want to discourage people from getting rich or aspiring to getting rich. Well, if you want to grow the economy, you want people to have aspirations to be better off, and they'll get better off not just through working but through saving and investing their savings. 31:57 It's obvious. The whole of history tells you that. 32:01 I don't think it's incompetence, although that may play a small part in other decisions that are being made right now. I don't think it's any accident. I think they're driving the country towards this deliberately. 32:12 No, I don't think they understand business and economics at all. Not at all. 32:22 I think I'm right in saying... 32:24 Almost no member of the federal cabinet has ever worked in a business, has ever been in a business. They just don't understand the equations. So they talk of economic growth and they think they'll achieve economic growth by the government spending money, which they call investment. If you invest $100, and it yields a return of $90, you're worse off. 32:57 So you need profitable investment to grow the economy. 33:02 And the best people to make profitable investments are business people. 33:09 They don't understand that. They just think spending money, which they either borrow or take from the taxpayer, and then and eventually the taxpayer has to pay the interest on the borrowed money, they think that will grow the economy. I'm afraid it won't. 33:30 Well, so here I was thinking that giving them way too much credit that it's deliberate and you're saying it's just straight-out incompetence. That makes me feel even worse. 33:41 So they have an ideological disposition towards public sector spending and towards public sector employment. So something like 80% of new jobs over the last four years have been created either in the public sector or in sectors which are dependent on public sector investment and spending. 34:09 I mean, that's an ideological thing. 34:12 They are ideologically committed to public sector investment and public sector employment. They love the concept of the public sector. That's where their ideology begins and ends. It used to be called socialism, but nowadays it's just called labour. 34:34 You know, I was just thinking when you said that, I mean, this whole socialist ideology, I mean, you've seen it run out in various parts of the world and you spend a lot of time in the UK and still do. 34:47 And what is happening there, drawing off that, what is to come here? 34:53 So the UK, you would say, is a declining power. That's... 35:00 a way of describing it. It's not that the economy is in recession, but it grows very slowly. 35:07 And they pursue exactly the same policies, economic policies, as the federal labor government does here and the state labor governments. They do exactly the same thing. So you've seen huge increases in public sector spending. 35:28 welfare entitlements have expanded very substantially. 35:35 And they build windmills. And they think by building windmills, which only offer intermittent power, they're somehow going to reduce the price of energy. Well, actually, they built two energy systems because you have to back up your windmills when the wind doesn't blow or the solar panels when the sun doesn't shine, which is every day. 36:03 So there you are. They have seen huge increases in energy prices, and energy drives the economy, of course. Very big increases in taxes. And they've borrowed so much money that their government debt is now nearly 100% of GDP. 36:27 They spend twice as much on interest on their government debt as they spend on their defence force. So we're not as badly off as that, but we are applying exactly the same formulas and we're getting exactly the same results. Very low rates of growth, endless increases in energy prices, particularly electricity prices. 36:55 And we're making no contribution to changing the weather, which is one of the ideas of the Labour government, that we can change the weather. 37:08 You know, it makes me pine for the Costello-Howard economic days. 37:14 I mean, it feels so far ago now, so long ago. I don't know how on earth we get back there. And I'm not sure the Liberal Party is the same. Liberal Party, is it? 37:27 Well, it needs to apply the same policies. So by the time we left government, which was, and we were unceremoniously evicted at the end of 2007. Well, you don't think it's because Kevin Rudd's such a great campaigner? 37:45 Such a great man. 37:47 So, and did such a great job of spending money. So, Our legacy was that we had economic growth rates between 3% and 4%. We had unemployment at about 4%. 38:05 We had no government debt at all. 38:10 And we ran a very small budget surplus every year. And so we achieved all of that. by focusing very heavily on the private sector and creating Australia as a haven where private companies would wish to invest. And it's a competitive world. I mean, investors don't have to come to Australia. They can go to America, which is where they are all going at the moment, or they can go to Europe or the UK or wherever or to Asia in So we knew that and we knew we had to make Australia an attractive country for investors, private sector investors. 38:58 And honestly, I think we were very successful in doing that. So that formula, but once Rudd and Gillard came in, that formula was pretty much abandoned because they have the labour way of doing things, public sector investment, building windmills and so on. 39:17 windmills and welfare policy, basically. 39:22 And that began to strangle the economy. I think it's honestly fair to say that through the Abbott, Turnbull, Morrison period, they didn't do enough to reverse the damage that Rudd and Gillard did. They didn't change enough and change back to the formula that had worked so well under the Howard government. So, I mean, that's the problem for the Liberal Party. 39:56 People think, well, they could have done better during those more recent years in government, and we don't like Labor much, so where do we go? So the Liberals need to explain to people that they will re-establish, if you like, the the growth-oriented economic policies of the Howard government. Because, I mean, if I could just say this, Australia as a country has very much lost momentum. 40:30 And it's become a country. I mean, this is an awful thing to say about my own beloved country. 40:36 But it's become a country in decline. Whereas we were such a dynamic country and an exemplar to much of the world in terms of our successful economic formula, our high rates of growth, our social cohesion and so on, we were absolutely motoring along. And now we're in decline. 41:09 And I think, by the way, I think the public recognise that and I think the public are really worried about it. 41:20 I can't agree with you more. I've been all over the country in the last few months. 41:24 Is that you? 41:26 Yeah, sorry. All right. Is that maybe Angus Taylor? I thought maybe you could reach across and just grab him by the scruff of the neck and say, come on, Angus, get busy and go back to those policies. It's pretty simple, isn't it? 41:37 Yeah, I mean, he's announced quite a few policies, and I think they're all good policies. 41:44 But he needs to tell people what his objective is. The objective is to restore the momentum of Australia. It's restore the excitement and uniqueness of Australia rather than follow a tired European model, which is what we're doing at the moment. 42:08 Restore economic growth to Australia. I mean, our economy, I mean, if you're Labor, you would say it's growing. It's growing at between 1% and 2%. It's barely growing. And real living standards... are actually declining. I mean, part of the reason our economy shows positive GDP figures, I'm not sure it's going to continue to do so over the next year, but it's up until now, is because of immigration. 42:38 But if you take immigration into account and look at economic growth per head of the population, it's actually declining. We've been in a recession for quite some time in Per Capitano. 42:53 Per head terms. 42:55 Shouldn't use Latinism. 42:58 I have no idea what you're saying. I've got the drift, though. I've got the drift. Keep it on the down low for me, Mr Downer, please. Will Tony Abbott make a comeback, do you think? He seems to be circling. 43:12 No, I think he's happy to be the president of the party. He's only just taken over in that job. 43:19 I don't know whether he'll go back into Parliament. I wouldn't have thought so. I mean, my advice to people is and my advice to myself is never go backwards. 43:32 Always go on. When you finish one job, however you finish it, move on to the next. 43:41 I like that advice. I'm doing it, by the way. 43:44 My friend, I noticed too, Jane Hume came out and said the Libs will not look to join forces with One Nation in any capacity. And I know you'd be across this. Rupert Lowe reached out to Nigel Farage from Restore to Reform. God knows what the Tories are doing in the UK. But This idea of a block of right-leaning parties as the only way to defeat Labor is one that's garnered a lot of attention over there, whether it works or not, whether they can see it through, who knows. 44:16 But is that what's needed here? Because the most common thing people say to me on the road is that surely that's got to happen. 44:24 No, I don't think it will happen. And one of the reasons, let's take the UK, since we have been following UK trends so closely here, including political trends. If the Conservative Party, which is the equivalent of the Liberal Party here, joined in, let's say, a coalition with reform, the equivalent of One Nation, then a lot of the people who say they would vote for reform wouldn't vote for that coalition. 45:01 And a lot of people who would vote for the Conservative Party don't like reform, and so they wouldn't vote for that coalition either. So adding their votes together, sure, that makes for around 50% in the UK, slightly under 50%, about 46% or 47%. 45:22 is an artificial way of looking at it. So I think they would lose the election if they joined together in that way, and I think Labor and the Greens would win. So I think, you know, whether people like it or whether they don't, I think the same thing would happen here. If the Liberals and Nationals, the coalition, joined with One Nation, then I think some people who would otherwise vote for One Nation would not vote for them, and some people who would otherwise particularly vote liberal in the cities, but not just, national as well, would not vote for them. 46:07 And so adding the votes together is completely artificial. It's like saying... 46:15 If Adelaide and Collingwood joined together, they would be able to beat Fremantle. Oh, no. Hang on. Stop. Stop. Can anybody beat Fremantle? That's a very, very new point since Adelaide have to play them quite soon. 46:34 So – The answer is it's absurd because Adelaide and Collingwood and Fremantle all want to win the premiership and they're all trying to win the premiership. So it's not going to help with Adelaide and Collingwood joining together. Sorry about the dog. 46:53 Yell at it, yell at it. Yes, that's right. I'm not Barnaby. 47:00 I've done it a couple of times this morning. My German shepherd's been going nuts and I've been doing a bit of country yelling, my man. So zero on that deal. What does the next month's hold for Australia politically then, do you think? 47:15 Well, so I think the next really important event is the Victorian election. I think a huge amount hinges on that. So I think for the Liberal Party, this will be crucially important. If they can win the Victorian election and they're well ahead of the other two parties, Labour and One Nation, in the polls, the latest polls show them quite a way ahead. 47:50 If they can win that election and win it well, I think that will restore faith in the Liberal Party, particularly if Jess Wilson becomes the Premier and she governs well. You know, people vote Liberal. They expect the Liberals to be a centre-right political party and do centre-right things, not to be scared by the blandishments of the political left, of the progressive classes. 48:22 If you're a progressive, fine, go and vote green or left-wing Labour or whatever it is. If you're into that sort of woke world, you know, there are political parties to vote for. But if you're not into it, and that's most of us, most of us think it's absurd and pretentious, then you should vote for the Liberals. But the Liberals have got to be very careful not to be frightened by progressives and by the left. 48:57 And I think there have been times over the last few years, I'd say the Howard government was pretty fearless, but there have been times over the last few years when they have become a little frightened of their political opponents instead of staring them down and arguing down. So I mention all of that because if the Liberals win in Victoria, the public will expect them to govern as a centre-right government. 49:28 Well, you know, the coalition win because the National Party will be part of it as well. They will expect them to govern as a centre-right government, not to start playing footsie with the left because they're worried about being criticised by the left. 49:47 So that's going to be really important to the Liberal Party. If they can win and they do a good job in Victoria, then they'll be on track to win federally as well. 49:59 Well, that's a big call. I look forward to seeing how it all unfolds. Alexander Downer, always a delight talking with you. Thanks for being on the show. 50:07 It's a great pleasure, Carl. That's it for tonight. Don't forget the panel on Friday night. And as we all say at this time of the evening, God save Queen Dawn. 50:20 See you Friday.